Founder of Power City International Ministry, Pastor Abel Damina, is often viewed through the lens of controversy and known for stirring the hornet’s nest with doctrines that many consider to be at variance with true biblical teachings. In this interview with Tessy Igomu, he discusses tithing, his criticism of Nigerian pastors, and relationships with Dr Paul Enenche, Pastor Enoch Adeboye, and Bishop David Oyedepo, among other issues
How do you feel being described as controversial, especially by Christians?
The truth is that I can only seem controversial to those accustomed to hearing lies. When someone used to lies hears the truth, it will sound different.
When falsehood becomes an institution, truth sounds like rebellion.
My teachings are not really controversial because they are from the same old Bible that has been used for thousands of years.
When it comes to biblical teaching, just like it was in the days of Jesus, the Pharisees and Sadducees were already teaching the bible before Jesus appeared in the four gospels and differed from the way they taught the Bible.
It was said that He sounded very different, controversial, strange, spoke mighty words, and with authority.
The reason is that the Bible is an ancient material written in a word review that is not our review word, in a language that is not ours, written in a culture that is not our culture, and in a vocabulary that is not our vocabulary.
The Bible was written by 40 authors, spans over 1500 years, and is in three languages – Greek, Hebrew, Latin, or Aramaic.
The Bible was also written on three different continents. When it was collated, it had only one message.
In John 5:39, Jesus said, “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.”
So the entire Bible is the testimony of Christ; it has one message, one character, and one emphasis.
So we say the Bible is a Christocentric material that carries with it a Christ-centered emphasis.
Tible is a theology and the theology of the bible is Christology and the mission of Christ is Soteriology, which is salvation.
So once a preacher’s emphasis is not Christ or salvation, anything I am saying will sound controversial to him and his congregation.
So, it is not controversial, it is just that what the people were fed before is not what the message of the Bible is.
Now that we are preaching the message of the Bible, which is Christ and salvation, it sounds controversial to those not used to hearing them.
Has your approach to Christian doctrines alienated you from the PFN, CAN and the rest?
It’s been wonderful and the truth is that all sincere, truth-loving men of God who are sound, we are talking about those who are theologically sound, are excited about what I am doing.
The only people who are frowning at what I am doing are those using the Bible for money-making purposes, and those using the Bible to extort from the poor for personal interest. They are the ones angry with me.
However, people who are sound theologically and are genuinely into the ministry are excited about what I am doing.
I have not been isolated from the Christian bodies. I was the National youth chairman for the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria for eight years. So, I am an ex officio of PFN and PFN is in the Christian Association of Nigeria.
I am not fighting anybody; I am just teaching the Bible. I don’t even call names and don’t attack individuals.
But of course, when light shines, darkness will feel attacked. I am not attacking; rather, I am just explaining the truth of the scriptures in the light of Jesus Christ.
You said Christians are not obligated to pay tithe, why? Also, will Christians miss heaven for not tithing?
The issue of tithing has been over-flogged and this is because of the way some men of God interpret the scriptures when it comes to tithe.
Tithe was first mentioned in the Bible in the book of Genesis 14:19-20. In this passage, Abraham gave a tenth of the spoils of war to Melchizedek, the king of Salem and priest of God.
This act is considered the first recorded instance of tithing in the Bible.
Nobody asked Abraham to give tithe and nobody gave him a law on tithing. It was just his way of showing appreciation to God. He didn’t give the tithe for blessings; he only gave it as a show of appreciation for the victory he got at the war front and the blessings pronounced over him.
In the Book of Numbers, God wanted Israel to be a kingdom of kings and priests. The Israelites said they wanted God to talk to Moses and then, Moses would speak to them.
Because of this, they appointed Moses as their mediator and God honoured it because He is not a tyrant.
Moses then set up the Leviticus priesthood, which was the tribe in Israel, set apart to serve in the temple. So, because they are to serve in the temple, they are not allowed to go to war or do business.
So, Moses made a law that every Israelite should pay tithe, which would be used to sustain the Levites, and also take care of the poor, widows and strangers.
In the book of Malachi 3:10 the bible says that because you do not pay tithe, you are cursed with a curse, but if you pay tithe, God will rebuke the devourers for your sake.
We must understand that in Bible teaching, there is the rule of Bible interpretation. Every time you read a context, you must look at the pretext, and understand protext to understand the context.
When Malachi was talking about those not paying tithe going to be cursed, he wasn’t talking to the Israelites, he was talking to the priests, who were collecting tithes from Israel but were not paying tithes to their higher priests.
Remember the Bible consists of the Old and New Testament. The New Testament is a relationship that is predicated on what Christ has done that qualifies a man.
So tithe was in the Old Testament, which is a relationship with God predicated on human performance.
That’s why in Matthew 23, Jesus called the Pharisees and Sadducees hypocrites for paying tithe but failed in the issues of love and compassion.
In Galatians 4:4-5, the Bible says, “But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.”
Christ saved us from the curse of the Law. So every curse that tithe should bring to us, Christ has redeemed us from it.
Christianity is apostolic and historic. During the time of the Apostles, nobody paid and received tithes.
The only thing you saw then was generosity. So, people sold land and brought the money, and provisions were made for people to cater for the needs of others in the church. That is what we see in the New Testament.
So what do with do with the tithe today? In Romans 15:4, the Bible says, “For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the scriptures and the encouragement they provide, we might have hope.”
Why was tithe paid? Number one, so that the needs of the priests can be met. Number two, so that the widows, strangers, and orphans can be taken care of.
Now, when we give, we give generously and willingly to support the church, the poor, widows and orphans, and with no percentages.
We are not to give tithe as a transaction. God is not transactional, God is a Father.
Romans 8:32, says, “He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?”
Anything that comes from Jesus is freely given. Jesus told his Apostles, freely you have received, freely you give. God does not demand anything from us. The only thing God demands from us is our faith. We give out of responsibility because we want the work of God to continue and for people to hear the gospel.
Tithe is not a prerequisite for heaven, if it is, the Bible will say that God so loved the world that whoever does not pay tithe shall not enter heaven but shall perish.
But the Bible says that God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Heaven is faith in Christ.
Why then are some churches so fixated on tithing and knocking their members, especially those struggling to survive, to enforce compliance?
The first thing that is responsible for this is ignorance. Some pastors are ignorant and don’t know that the New Testament has moved away from tithing to generosity.
For some churches, it’s just greed from the pastors. They are just using it to take advantage of the poor and those that are ignorant. Some churches know the truth but don’t want to preach the truth.
They are adamant and don’t want to comply with the truth.
There are allegations that you claimed Pastor Jerry Eze stage-managed miracles in London. How true is this?
When I talk about arranging miracles, I did’t call anybody’s name. In fact, when I spoke about it, Jerry had not gone to London for anything. I said this quite some time back.
What I said was that the crutches and wheelchairs were all the same brand. I pointed out that the crutches were brought to the crusade by different people with different brand new, and in a sane society. I said these were brand new crutches and wheelchairs, and that some of the miracles are arranged. I didn’t call anybody’s name and I would want to maintain that position.
Your claim that you ordained Pastor David Enenche has raised quite some dust. What doyou have to say?
The truth was that I was there when the church started. I was part of the formation of the church and was involved in getting it started. It is not part of my future and has nothing to do for me right now. I wouldn’t want to over-flog this issue. If they say I lied, time will tell.
You had a personal relationship with Enenche, what exactly went wrong between the two of you?
As I said, I really don’t have anything to benefit from this issue and don’t want to waste my energy on it. I did, what I did, and the videos are there to prove it.
Videos don’t lie; they are there on social media. I ordained him in February 1997, along with Archbishop Isaac Idahosa, the vice presidential candidate of the New Nigeria Peoples Party.
Even the way Pastor Enenche sings, it was Archbishop Idahosa who taught him. Idahosa is still alive, you can ask him.
He had been singing way before Enenche started to sing
Idahosa preached on the ordination day, while Panam Percy Paul, sang. All of these are labouring time, they are for records. I’m not here to force Enenche to be part of what I’m doing. We didn’t have any misunderstanding.
It is just that in the public domain, they keep asking me these questions. And I try to ensure to keep the record straight. Some people think I am lying; I have nothing to lie about. All that I did for him and to support his ministry, I did because of Jesus. And if he fails to see, Jesus is the rewarder at the end of the day.
Do you have any relationship with fathers of faith like Pastor Enoch Adeboye, Pastor William Kumuyi and Bishop David Oyedepo?
I don’t have a personal relationship with them but I relate to them as men of God.
Did you at any time pass through their ministries or see them as mentors?
As it is with every form of knowledge, when you are growing, you need many sources of knowledge and to read a lot of materials. I learned from them by reading their materials, including those men of God outside the country.
Some pastors have openly endorsed masturbation. What is your stance on this?
Some things look innocent but are sins. Anything that is not of faith is a sin. If you drink water and it’s not of faith, it is a sin. If you eat food that is not of faith, it is a sin. It depends on what premise someone is seeing masturbation and is saying it is not a sin. Masturbation involves your mind and thoughts, and if your thoughts are on things that are not pure and not of good report, you have sinned.
Do you think Christians should be actively involved in politics and nation-building?
Every citizen should be actively involved in politics and nation-building because our nation is all that we have. It is our civic right as citizens to build our country and be concerned about who is at the helm of affairs because at the end of the day, whatever policies they formulate, we are all going to be the recipients.
Not many people accept your doctrinal stand. Do you see more people embracing them in future, especially young ministers?
I’m telling you that the earth shall be filled with the glory of the knowledge of God as water covers the sea. What I’m preaching today may sound extreme. One thing about truth is that it sounds controversial when it appears, but after a while, it will resonate.
As I’m preaching, I’m fully persuaded that the message of Christ is breaking across barriers, religions and continents.
What we are preaching is not concocted but critically explained in the Bible. With time, people will come to terms with these realities. The truth is well explained in the Bible. The problem with many people is that they don’t get the full details of what I teach on YouTube.
They wait for bloggers, who will take two minutes sentence out of a-40 hours of teaching, summarise and amplify.
The readers will just run with the bloggers’ summary, which was quoted out of context.
It will become worse now that social media has been monetised because a lot of content creators will stir up controversies to draw traffic to their sites.
However, those who are intelligent and sincere about wanting to know the truth will look for the full videos on YouTube and follow up by crosschecking with the bible.
The good thing is that the truth is consistent. If you run away from it today, in five or 10 years’ time, it will be waiting for you.
Eventually, you will come to terms with it. The Bible says a lying tongue is for a moment but that of truth is forever.
God is raising an army across the world that will herald the truth of Christ.
